Thread: Pocket 4k/6k with the Zhiyun Crane and other gimbals

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  1. #1 Pocket 4k/6k with the Zhiyun Crane and other gimbals 
    A little frustrated..the pocket4k is not gimbal friendly despite what people think about it's form factor. The weight distribution is wonky as hell. I tried 3 lenses, the sigma 18-35, a nikon 50mm 1.8, and the angeniux tokina 28-70 all with a metabones SB. (with and without the cage)

    The tilt axis does not balance on the sigma 18-35. (for reference, when I mean balanced I mean I am able to tilt the camera in any position on it's respective axis and have it stay in place.)

    I can get the tilt axis level with a bit of work, and depending on the angle I can move it and have it stay. But a little too much and it will flop backwards or forwads. Without the cage, I am able to balance the 18-35 on the tilt axis. Interestingly enough, I can balance the 28-70 on the tilt axis WITH the tilta cage attached.

    The next axis is the roll axis. This will NOT balance no matter what combination I use. If I roll it to either side it will not stay in position, but instead slowly level off back to center. The BEST I can get it is that it will stay in position on one side, but if I roll it on it's other side it will swing back to center. Keep in mind I am no stranger to gimbals. I am able to balance my Nikon Z6 rather easily with any lens combination. I have calibrated this gimbal, and have also returned my previous crane 3 for a new one just to make sure mine wasn't a lemon. I have tried all 3 motor settings. The footage itself wobbles on the horizon (the tilt axis) even though that is the only axis I can get perfectly balanced.

    Anybody have any experience with the crane 3, or is there a gimbal that can handle the pocket4k's weight distribution?
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  2. #2  
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    I have got it fully balanced on my ronin-s, with the sigma 18-35 BUT not in the cage, only bare camera. I have a dual handle setup and a v-mount battery on the handles, which runs power to the camera. It's effing heavy and I don't like using the camera/gimbal because of it.

    But if a client really wants it, at least I can do it. Again, not in the cage though, so i have to unrig every time. Sucks.
    Ursa 4.6k, Pocket Cinema 4k, BMCC, BMPCC, GH4+Metabones, GoPro Hero4 Black, Phantom 2, Canon T3i, Lots of glass.
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  3. #3  
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    I have a Tilta G2X and have no issues balancing it with my Tilta cage, speed booster and Tokina 11-16 and Rokinon 35mm. Tilta's been having a sale on the G2X/Nano bundle for $500, which is insane.

    I've also seen people balance the P4K on pretty much every other gimbal out there, including the Crane 3.
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  4. #4  
    I'm using the P4K with a Smallrig cage, Speed Booster and the Tokina 28-70. It works without issues on the Crane 3.
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  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by RomanStone View Post
    I can get the tilt axis level with a bit of work, and depending on the angle I can move it and have it stay. But a little too much and it will flop backwards or forwads. Without the cage, I am able to balance the 18-35 on the tilt axis. Interestingly enough, I can balance the 28-70 on the tilt axis WITH the tilta cage attached.
    this sounds like you have only balanced the slider plate, and not adjusted the tilt axis arm height. Or not sufficiently adjusted. This will result in what you describe. I hope I don't step on your toes saying this, you certainly have much more experience with gimbals, but what you say in that quote is rather revealing. Maybe I'm not properly interpreting that info, in that case I apologise in advance.

    I've watched a couple of tutorial videos on the internet, and after I got the Crane 3 it became clear that actually none of these tutorials were correct. All of them use too much time and not enough care, and their cameras are not properly balanced. In truth the Crane 3 is very easy to balance with any camera setup, and very quickly.

    Are you using an offset plate of some kind? You must, otherwise you couldn't mount the P4k without cage. I'm waiting for the SmallRig Offset Plate to be delivered, until then I cannot mount the P4k. It's made exactly for this camera - gimbal combination, and I guess it's rather new. Didn't hear about it some months ago.

    https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-of...s-bss2327.html

    Edit: the SmallRig Offset Plate arrived today at my place, and it looks like it is not very useful for the Crane 3, despite the plate's description. For instance, there are no screw holes to mount the servos. I cannot recommend it. For the Pocket 4k it is better to use the original slider plate and move the Crane 3 basis (Camera Control System) fully to the left. I don't understand what SmallRig were thinking when they wrote that this product was compatible with the Crane 3 gimbal. Must have been some kind of mistake.
    Last edited by Phil999; 08-13-2019 at 05:44 AM.
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  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil999 View Post
    this sounds like you have only balanced the slider plate, and not adjusted the tilt axis arm height. Or not sufficiently adjusted. This will result in what you describe. I hope I don't step on your toes saying this, you certainly have much more experience with gimbals, but what you say in that quote is rather revealing. Maybe I'm not properly interpreting that info, in that case I apologise in advance.

    I've watched a couple of tutorial videos on the internet, and after I got the Crane 3 it became clear that actually none of these tutorials were correct. All of them use too much time and not enough care, and their cameras are not properly balanced. In truth the Crane 3 is very easy to balance with any camera setup, and very quickly.

    Are you using an offset plate of some kind? You must, otherwise you couldn't mount the P4k without cage. I'm waiting for the SmallRig Offset Plate to be delivered, until then I cannot mount the P4k. It's made exactly for this camera - gimbal combination, and I guess it's rather new. Didn't hear about it some months ago.

    https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-of...s-bss2327.html

    Phil,

    I don't use an offset plate and you can still mount the pocket4k.
    I adjust the plate first so the camera doesn't drop backwards or forwards.
    Then I tilt the camera with the lens facing up, and adjust the height. With the 28-70 and cage, I am able to adjust it to the point where no matter where I adjust the camera on the tilt axis, it stays in position. with the Sigma 18-35, there is no micro adjustment that I have found inbetween it falling backwards or forwards when adjusting the height. Again, I am able to get the 28-70 to balance on the tilt axis but not the 18-35.


    Then, I adjust the roll axis. Meaning I move it left or right until the camera does not want to roll left or right. Then i roll the axis either left or right and see if the camera will stay. It does not - there is no adjustment I seem to be able to make to do this. It either always returns to center slowly, or one side will stay in position but the other will roll back to center. I am not just shoving it either, I'm really trying to adjust it as minutely as possible to get that perfect "inbetween spot". This is with all three lenses. I need to stress again, the 28-70 and 50mm are perfectly adjusted on the tilt axis in the prior step.

    Lastly, I adjust the pan axis and make sure that the axis doesn't move when I am the gimbal. (This is the axis on the very bottom of the gimbal) This part is the easiest.

    I'm not sure if I communicated my post properly.
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  7. #7  
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    My BMPCC 4k + Smallrig full cage + HDMI clamp + T5 SSD + SR T5 clamp + MB speedbooster + Sigma Art 18-35 balances on all axes on my Moza AIr 2 but the roll axis is at the extreme end of its range. I put this down to the combined weight of the HDMI/SSD/SSD clamp weight on the RHS of the caqe (front on view) and the offset needed when attaching the camera to the Moza QR plate. I've contacted Smallrig to see if they will manufacture a rail or plate with 2 x M4 threaded holes plus 1/4" and maybe 3/8" holes to shift the SSD camp to the centre or the LHS of the cage and thus nudge the balance closer to the centre of the roll axis range. I've jerry rigged a counterweight and the concept works and does not tax the motors (total weight of the camera and rig is 2.25kg. plus the counterweight)
    The Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera - what it says on the box!
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  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogmag View Post
    I'm using the P4K with a Smallrig cage, Speed Booster and the Tokina 28-70. It works without issues on the Crane 3.
    Same here.
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  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by RomanStone View Post
    I'm not sure if I communicated my post properly.
    no, it was my misunderstanding, sorry. And you're right, one does not need an offset plate, I just found out this morning. As to your question/problem, I need to get the visual picture first to understand better, research what gear you use exactly. Sorry again, my post was not helping at all.
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  10. #10  
    I'm using a Smallrig half cage with a Ronin S along with the Smallrig counterweight set. I often use it with a Veydra 16mm which is a heavy lense. It works well.
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