Thread: BMD's Biggest Differentiator

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  1. #41  
    Senior Member kgimedia's Avatar
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    I have many but this is one example of why I love Pro Res and BlackMagic. I recently shot an event that was a Guinness Book World Record attempt for the longest putt. We needed an unmanned camera that could record for 7 hours straight and be ready to edit and upload whiten seconds of the record happening. No other camera besides one of my BlackMagic camera could do that. 480GB SSD in a BMPC at ProRes422 in 1080p30 with video color science. Just one of many examples where my BlackMagic camera could do what no other camera around could do. Edit ready footage and if I had a bigger drive I could do 12 or more hours without stoping or swapping.


    Also I was mildly drunk when I posted that second post but the sentiment remains. I love RAW but when you need to record some two camera interviews in a controlled environment for 10 hours ProRes is very nice.
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  2. #42  
    Senior Member AndrewDeme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stip View Post
    Andrew, if you could phrase the issue you are having in one clear sentence this thread might go somewhere. It's just really hard to understand what exactly this is about.

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    At the moment, camera companies are all kinda competing down parallel paths, with say Sony having a serious crack at virtualising their sensor where they do as much processing on the sensor as possible, versus others that follow the eye and brain methodology. But in both cases the sensor and post processing happen in the same physical unit, just like the thing that sits above our necks.

    I was just philosophizing, as the next version of sensors are going to capture way more than simple pixels with 'buckets' and just light and by then, data storage speeds and transfer rates will be more than capable enough.

    Kinda got me thinking that BMD, with an amazing processing engine in Davinci, have a huge advantage with this next phase in technology development which may rely more on post processing than ever before.

    As for everyone who feels the need to defend the 'honor' of ProRes and how useful it is, I agree it is fine...just not something I could be bothered with, similar to the idea of people that love pushbikes but I can't be bothered to ride one as electric skateboards make way more sense to me.

    Another way to think of this philosophizing, is like a bunch of people sitting around talking about the next revolution or evolution in technology for F1, meanwhile there are a bunch of Smart ForTwo car drivers saying, why do you need all that expense and engineering when my car works perfectly, gets great fuel economy, is great for parking and has amazing handling and acceleration.

    Just for the nutters out there, I drive a Smart ForTwo and love my car and yes I also love F1 and the never ending technology race that eventually filters down to cars like mine....albeit a decade or so later.

    Was really just thinking where this could all be in 10 years time....
    Last edited by AndrewDeme; 10-22-2016 at 05:38 PM.
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  3. #43  
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    I think I know now what you mean.
    Although I have little knowledge about writing software or building cameras, I like your thought that - since BMD are doing both - they are in a position where they might come up with some (exclusive to their products) innovation concerning the camera/post-production relationship.
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  4. #44  
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    Quote Originally Posted by stip View Post
    I think I know now what you mean.
    Although I have little knowledge about writing software or building cameras, I like your thought that - since BMD are doing both - they are in a position where they might come up with some (exclusive to their products) innovation concerning the camera/post-production relationship.
    Whoooo Hoooo.....now we are talking !

    Imagine a camera that captures both ProRes, in whatever format the masses love and at the same time captures RAW, which integrates with Davinci to give the rest of us other creative options which could be automated as part of AI post processing or we get the option to dream and imagine and go crazy for ourselves.

    My Sony RX100, whatever the latest version is (can't keep up with the Roman symbol stuff), records both JPG and RAW at the same time (for every image)...with the JPG's auto enhanced in camera where the RAW Data relies on some software from some company to include some sort of LUT, which may be optimised or may not..... as it is controlled by a 3rd party whp may or may not give a crap.

    Here BMD are sitting on what I think is the world's best image post processing engine and am thinking they could leverage it to their advantage, whilst letting the ProRes crowd (like JPG's for point and shoot), picket the streets, grab their pitchforks and knock emselves out.....whilst the world moves on in a never ending relentless pursuit of tech.
    Last edited by AndrewDeme; 10-22-2016 at 07:44 PM.
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  5. #45  
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    There is many things I hope the camera developers would focus into:

    1. Image flow instead of single images. Develop a sensor that makes the global shutter irrelevant.
    2. Perfect pixels, finally get rid of Bayer, maybe the solution is Foveon, maybe something else, but just give us perfect pixels, maybe adding also BW pixels for better dynamic range.
    3. Color science, What color science, that is only needed because imperfect pixels and compressed storage even on RAW, yeah I mean that, what is LUT but a compression. Just give us 16 bit RAW.
    4. And if that is not possible provide in 8K, 6k, 4k, so what give us perfect FHD, that is the format most are viewing the videos anyway.
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  6. #46  
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewDeme View Post
    As for everyone who feels the need to defend the 'honor' of ProRes and how useful it is, I agree it is fine...just not something I could be bothered with, similar to the idea of people that love pushbikes but I can't be bothered to ride one as electric skateboards make way more sense to me.
    You just shot yourself in the foot (at least in my eyes and I'm sure the eyes of many others on this forum) with your own analogy.
    The whole point is I like to ride push bikes and I like to use electric skateboards, not one over the other.

    Not everybody wants a camera to be a dictator, some want it to be a democracy, BM understand this and I thank them for it, if I could only shoot RAW in these cameras, I wouldn't own them.
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  7. #47  
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    I think Blackmagic HAD the big differentiator with their original Cinema Camera, and also in the Production 4k camera. Too bad they gave up on it because it was totally original and no other makers have done it.

    I'm talking of course about the obvious fact that the original Cinema camera and BMPC are left-handed cameras.

    I feel they really gave up on their original brilliance when they gave in and made the Pocket and Ursa Cameras.

    Now, the Micro is sort of a return to their original intention...but it's hard to really say since it's a bit of a special purpose camera, what with the 'no-screen' form factor and all.
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  8. #48  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    There is many things I hope the camera developers would focus into:

    1. Image flow instead of single images. Develop a sensor that makes the global shutter irrelevant.
    2. Perfect pixels, finally get rid of Bayer, maybe the solution is Foveon, maybe something else, but just give us perfect pixels, maybe adding also BW pixels for better dynamic range.
    3. Color science, What color science, that is only needed because imperfect pixels and compressed storage even on RAW, yeah I mean that, what is LUT but a compression. Just give us 16 bit RAW.
    4. And if that is not possible provide in 8K, 6k, 4k, so what give us perfect FHD, that is the format most are viewing the videos anyway.
    Some good points.
    I too wait for cameras that produce perfect pixels. Imo it's the one thing other than dynamic range and resolution that closes down the gap between the look and feel of film and digital. I have a Sigma DP2 that sports a Foveon sensor and it's just a different thing compared to Bayer sensors.

    Sigma's Foveon cameras shoot their own raw format and you need a Sigma software to process it, none other will. I guess that would be a simple example of an exclusive interconnection between camera and post-production.

    I too see many possibilities in the symbiosis between camera and post production. So if I got it right, Andrew's main point is not about Prores, the choice between one or several codecs or existing codecs at all, but about completely new approaches that could simplify, automate, individualize or customize the process from image capturing to post-processing.
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  9. #49  
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    Keeping the 'out there idea' going...what about say bolting 4 Micro's into a std frame, with specific lenses, shoot RAW and auto process and stitch in Resolve ?

    Yep I know this could be done with ProRes but AI loves data and the more the better.
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  10. #50  
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    Andrew, no offense here but man as you replied to my post early on this thread as my saying to be one "Toxic Culture Continues" I'm going to own that now because this thread is going no where. As I read your replies after replies to everyone trying to understand you, you either as a genius that idealize things but can't put it into words or phrase that a layman could understand what you are really asking or stating, or just completely delirious needing some screw tightening or realignment. Until then, what JB said is what it is, and kudos to all those who'd trolled along with go intention of helping or clarifying.
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